Comments on: More or less a cautionary tale: Laura on #6 http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/ Just another WordPress.com weblog Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:27:06 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Eric http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-352 Eric Wed, 20 May 2009 20:07:33 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-352 I think Dave's comments on Jaka from Cerebus 114 and later comments speak volumes about his changing view of women in general; she goes from being on a "higher rung of the karmic ladder" to being an "aristocratic airhead." That being said, Dave was correct when he later stated that there was a moment when he had Cerebus realize that he knew nothing about Jaka; Jaka pre-Going Home was perhaps a romanticized view, where post-Going Home she became de-romanticized, perhaps too much. Reading Jaka's Story together with Going Home is a schizophrenic experience. It's a bit difficult to believe this is the same woman. While she achieves a bit of depth, it is to the expense of consistency of character. Then again, much time has passed, and people change, which is perhaps one of Cerebus' great themes: Cerebus undergoes major changes, so too do Bran McMufin, Rick, Jaka, and so on. So too did Dave Sim, for that matter. I think Dave’s comments on Jaka from Cerebus 114 and later comments speak volumes about his changing view of women in general; she goes from being on a “higher rung of the karmic ladder” to being an “aristocratic airhead.” That being said, Dave was correct when he later stated that there was a moment when he had Cerebus realize that he knew nothing about Jaka; Jaka pre-Going Home was perhaps a romanticized view, where post-Going Home she became de-romanticized, perhaps too much. Reading Jaka’s Story together with Going Home is a schizophrenic experience. It’s a bit difficult to believe this is the same woman. While she achieves a bit of depth, it is to the expense of consistency of character. Then again, much time has passed, and people change, which is perhaps one of Cerebus’ great themes: Cerebus undergoes major changes, so too do Bran McMufin, Rick, Jaka, and so on. So too did Dave Sim, for that matter.

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By: Jeff Tundis http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-224 Jeff Tundis Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:04:29 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-224 Mmmm... no. I would argue that Henrot is not an idiot. Eccentric, yes, but not an idiot. And Bran... but that comes later. Here's another question. Jaka and Cerebus. What other characters (besides brainless oafs like Klog and Thugg) refer to themselves in the third person? Mmmm… no. I would argue that Henrot is not an idiot. Eccentric, yes, but not an idiot. And Bran… but that comes later.

Here’s another question. Jaka and Cerebus. What other characters (besides brainless oafs like Klog and Thugg) refer to themselves in the third person?

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By: Leigh Walton http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-223 Leigh Walton Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:05:21 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-223 Here's an interesting question: Is Jaka the first character aside from Cerebus who's not an idiot? Here’s an interesting question: Is Jaka the first character aside from Cerebus who’s not an idiot?

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By: CCBC http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-222 CCBC Sun, 01 Mar 2009 04:35:41 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-222 damn! Screwed the HTML on the Emerson link. Here: http://www.hembeck.com/WordsAboutPictures/BlakeBellLiveWithThisGuy.htm damn! Screwed the HTML on the Emerson link. Here: http://www.hembeck.com/WordsAboutPictures/BlakeBellLiveWithThisGuy.htm

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By: CCBC http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-221 CCBC Sun, 01 Mar 2009 04:34:40 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-221 I Have To Live With This Guy! by Blake Bell That's the book, Jeff! Been a long time since I've read it but I think it has stuff of interest to any comics reader. Since you got the title up I googled a little and <a href rel="nofollow">Hunt Emerson has some comments on the book.</a> When it first came out there was a letter in <i>Cerebus</i> from someone who (IIRC) said it was a feminist attack and quoted some line of Deni's about Dave. Dave said something to the effect of "Get over it. That was a long time ago." Thing is, the book was written by a man, may or may not have been feminist, and wasn't a particularly nasty attack on Dave. Deni mostly talked about her own trials as a publisher. I Have To Live With This Guy! by Blake Bell
That’s the book, Jeff! Been a long time since I’ve read it but I think it has stuff of interest to any comics reader. Since you got the title up I googled a little and Hunt Emerson has some comments on the book. When it first came out there was a letter in Cerebus from someone who (IIRC) said it was a feminist attack and quoted some line of Deni’s about Dave. Dave said something to the effect of “Get over it. That was a long time ago.” Thing is, the book was written by a man, may or may not have been feminist, and wasn’t a particularly nasty attack on Dave. Deni mostly talked about her own trials as a publisher.

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By: Jeff Tundis http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-220 Jeff Tundis Sun, 01 Mar 2009 03:35:17 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-220 Right, Sarah Hitchens was the maker of the Cerebus dolls. So, maybe Sally (?) was her sister or something? I really have no idea. (I'm guessing Sally because in Dave Note From The President in issue #114 he traces Jaka's origins "from Deni's wedding present to what I felt for Sally to the lingering allure of Lynn.") Right, Sarah Hitchens was the maker of the Cerebus dolls. So, maybe Sally (?) was her sister or something? I really have no idea.

(I’m guessing Sally because in Dave Note From The President in issue #114 he traces Jaka’s origins “from Deni’s wedding present to what I felt for Sally to the lingering allure of Lynn.”)

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By: Leigh Walton http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-219 Leigh Walton Sun, 01 Mar 2009 03:06:55 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-219 Jeff, your point about open marriages is worth considering -- and I don't think there's much point in trying to judge Dave's or Deni's behavior on this issue. Except that, as Laura pointed out, it makes the whole issue feel really depressing. That feeling was compounded when I saw <a href="http://thecereblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/issue-07-ibc-toy.jpg" rel="nofollow">the inside back cover</a> of the very next issue (#7 was released immediately after the wedding). Apparently this Hitchens is not the girlfriend, but her relative? Still: weird. Jeff, your point about open marriages is worth considering — and I don’t think there’s much point in trying to judge Dave’s or Deni’s behavior on this issue. Except that, as Laura pointed out, it makes the whole issue feel really depressing.

That feeling was compounded when I saw the inside back cover of the very next issue (#7 was released immediately after the wedding). Apparently this Hitchens is not the girlfriend, but her relative? Still: weird.

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By: Jeff Tundis http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-217 Jeff Tundis Sun, 01 Mar 2009 02:54:41 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-217 Well, I didn't mean to imply that she was financially successful as a publisher with Renegade. Obviously, the company is no longer around. I meant as a personal high point for her because of her control and investment in the project. I'm sure it was an adventure no matter the outcome. I do know the book you mean. I Have To Live With This Guy! by Blake Bell. Nice guy. I've spoken with him several times. He also put out an excellent book recently on Steve Ditko called Strange and Stranger: The World of Steve Ditko. Well, I didn’t mean to imply that she was financially successful as a publisher with Renegade. Obviously, the company is no longer around. I meant as a personal high point for her because of her control and investment in the project. I’m sure it was an adventure no matter the outcome.

I do know the book you mean. I Have To Live With This Guy! by Blake Bell. Nice guy. I’ve spoken with him several times. He also put out an excellent book recently on Steve Ditko called Strange and Stranger: The World of Steve Ditko.

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By: CCBC http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-216 CCBC Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:43:34 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-216 Maybe we can discuss Renegade Press a few score issues along -- I didn't think it was a high point, more a rapid downward trajectory. Incidentally, Deni talked about some of her adventures in publishing in a book of collected essays on comics creators' significant others. It was titled something like <i>I Had To Live With Him</i> and, when it came out, people focused on Deni and Dave, but there was a lot more to the book than that -- or at least, so I recall. Maybe we can discuss Renegade Press a few score issues along — I didn’t think it was a high point, more a rapid downward trajectory.
Incidentally, Deni talked about some of her adventures in publishing in a book of collected essays on comics creators’ significant others. It was titled something like I Had To Live With Him and, when it came out, people focused on Deni and Dave, but there was a lot more to the book than that — or at least, so I recall.

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By: Jeff Tundis http://cereblog.org/2009/02/20/more-or-less-a-cautionary-tale-laura-on-6/#comment-214 Jeff Tundis Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:37:09 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=323#comment-214 Glad to see the interview Margaret and I did with Deni put to good use:) Given the time frame and the "newness" of what she and Dave were trying to do, I think she's pretty impressive as a self-taught publisher. In that regard, as a publisher, a higher point may have been Renegade Press which was her baby. I agree Leigh, that's totally a boner gag. But it's kind of "hidden" because it's also a variation on the earth pig snout punch. A tail punch. Stupid and clever at the same time;^D As Matthew Brady said, there was another boner gag in issue #59, which you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZrhkRv0g7s at the 1:39 mark. It wasn't the woman's breasts that caused the pants to rip, but the resulting visual's intent is obvious:) I also agree that reading Deni's intro is sad. Dave has retconned a lot of his reasoning behind his earlier decision making process, but this one rings true to me. Maybe not *totally* bizarre in the context of an open marriage, though. Glad to see the interview Margaret and I did with Deni put to good use:)

Given the time frame and the “newness” of what she and Dave were trying to do, I think she’s pretty impressive as a self-taught publisher. In that regard, as a publisher, a higher point may have been Renegade Press which was her baby.

I agree Leigh, that’s totally a boner gag. But it’s kind of “hidden” because it’s also a variation on the earth pig snout punch. A tail punch. Stupid and clever at the same time;^D

As Matthew Brady said, there was another boner gag in issue #59, which you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZrhkRv0g7s at the 1:39 mark. It wasn’t the woman’s breasts that caused the pants to rip, but the resulting visual’s intent is obvious:)

I also agree that reading Deni’s intro is sad. Dave has retconned a lot of his reasoning behind his earlier decision making process, but this one rings true to me.

Maybe not *totally* bizarre in the context of an open marriage, though.

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