Comments on: He has seen enough of religious fanaticism: Leigh on #5 http://cereblog.org/2009/02/13/he-has-seen-enough-of-religious-fanaticism-leigh-on-5/ Just another WordPress.com weblog Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:27:06 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Eric http://cereblog.org/2009/02/13/he-has-seen-enough-of-religious-fanaticism-leigh-on-5/#comment-351 Eric Wed, 20 May 2009 19:58:49 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=216#comment-351 Having just again re-read High Society and Church and State, I'd have to say that Cerebus never fully becomes accustomed to being either a religious leader or to having incredible amounts of wealth. If anything, he is made all the more aware of the hollowness of religious power and of wealth and spends the rest of the series having been humbled by this realization. I think perhaps the "Barbarian" Cerebus of the early issues was more one-dimensional characterization and much more "sure" of himself than the later Cerebus. But yes, you are correct that, given later events, Cerebus rejection of this temptation is certainly contradicted by later events. Having just again re-read High Society and Church and State, I’d have to say that Cerebus never fully becomes accustomed to being either a religious leader or to having incredible amounts of wealth. If anything, he is made all the more aware of the hollowness of religious power and of wealth and spends the rest of the series having been humbled by this realization. I think perhaps the “Barbarian” Cerebus of the early issues was more one-dimensional characterization and much more “sure” of himself than the later Cerebus. But yes, you are correct that, given later events, Cerebus rejection of this temptation is certainly contradicted by later events.

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By: mantichore http://cereblog.org/2009/02/13/he-has-seen-enough-of-religious-fanaticism-leigh-on-5/#comment-200 mantichore Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:43:07 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=216#comment-200 <i>“Cromag Macs Milc” would appear to be a hybrid of Cro-Magnon and 1970s Canadian convenience store chain Mac’s Milk.</i> ...and of course, there's another R.E. Howard character called Cormac Mac Art. As for power, Cerebus *loves* it: he's a nasty, brutish and short little egotist who, for a long time, sees power as the best route to gold gold gold. I'd say he ends up a prisoner of his own power. “Cromag Macs Milc” would appear to be a hybrid of Cro-Magnon and 1970s Canadian convenience store chain Mac’s Milk.

…and of course, there’s another R.E. Howard character called Cormac Mac Art.

As for power, Cerebus *loves* it: he’s a nasty, brutish and short little egotist who, for a long time, sees power as the best route to gold gold gold. I’d say he ends up a prisoner of his own power.

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By: Nicolas Papaconstantinou http://cereblog.org/2009/02/13/he-has-seen-enough-of-religious-fanaticism-leigh-on-5/#comment-195 Nicolas Papaconstantinou Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:23:02 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=216#comment-195 These posts are fascinating reading thus far - great choice for a subject, and though I lost track of Cerebus later on, and need to go back and re-read them, it's certainly a series that deserves scrutiny. My memory of the oncoming books is shaky, but I always thought that the reason Cerebus eventually allowed himself to become a religious figure and a leader was almost done out of resignation - I don't recall him making a BID for power, so much as circumstances building up around him making it too easy a path to ignore - and a realisation that he couldn't do a worse job than the people already in charge. I may be conflating and projecting here, mind. Certainly, I don't remember the power ever sitting all that well with him, once he had it. These posts are fascinating reading thus far – great choice for a subject, and though I lost track of Cerebus later on, and need to go back and re-read them, it’s certainly a series that deserves scrutiny.

My memory of the oncoming books is shaky, but I always thought that the reason Cerebus eventually allowed himself to become a religious figure and a leader was almost done out of resignation – I don’t recall him making a BID for power, so much as circumstances building up around him making it too easy a path to ignore – and a realisation that he couldn’t do a worse job than the people already in charge.

I may be conflating and projecting here, mind.

Certainly, I don’t remember the power ever sitting all that well with him, once he had it.

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By: Laura Hudson http://cereblog.org/2009/02/13/he-has-seen-enough-of-religious-fanaticism-leigh-on-5/#comment-193 Laura Hudson Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:21:10 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=216#comment-193 <i>What really seems to be at work, underneath Cerebus’ stated reasoning, is his desire to define his own identity, rather than stepping into a predefined identity created by others. The old “no, Dad, I won’t take over the family business, I’m going to art school” thing.</i> I think that's a really good point, and something I didn't entirely put my finger on during my post. Cerebus rejects the role the Pigts offer him not out of a desire to be unique, but out of a desire to be unique on his own terms. Clearly the perceptions of others matter here, but being perceived as special isn't enough for him unless it reflects someting authentic. Not that Cerebus has necessarily sussed out a rock-solid sense of who he is, but he seems pretty certain about who he isn't. Also, love the cross-referencing with Blankets, Earthfall, and Astonishing, btw. What really seems to be at work, underneath Cerebus’ stated reasoning, is his desire to define his own identity, rather than stepping into a predefined identity created by others. The old “no, Dad, I won’t take over the family business, I’m going to art school” thing.

I think that’s a really good point, and something I didn’t entirely put my finger on during my post. Cerebus rejects the role the Pigts offer him not out of a desire to be unique, but out of a desire to be unique on his own terms. Clearly the perceptions of others matter here, but being perceived as special isn’t enough for him unless it reflects someting authentic. Not that Cerebus has necessarily sussed out a rock-solid sense of who he is, but he seems pretty certain about who he isn’t.

Also, love the cross-referencing with Blankets, Earthfall, and Astonishing, btw.

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By: DerikB http://cereblog.org/2009/02/13/he-has-seen-enough-of-religious-fanaticism-leigh-on-5/#comment-192 DerikB Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:38:39 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=216#comment-192 I think it's interesting that Cerebus here rejects what he basically ends up doing later (the Pigts even return). Yet much later Sim discusses Cerebus as a series of accepting then rejecting options about the world and how it works. Here Cerebus is rejecting before later accepting and then rejecting again... One thing I love about the series is how these single issues in the beginning later blossom into larger plotlines, recurring characters, and thematic relevance. That is obviously retrospective reworking, but Sim does it really well, a good hallmark of long term serialization, making new hay out of old stories. I think it’s interesting that Cerebus here rejects what he basically ends up doing later (the Pigts even return). Yet much later Sim discusses Cerebus as a series of accepting then rejecting options about the world and how it works. Here Cerebus is rejecting before later accepting and then rejecting again…

One thing I love about the series is how these single issues in the beginning later blossom into larger plotlines, recurring characters, and thematic relevance. That is obviously retrospective reworking, but Sim does it really well, a good hallmark of long term serialization, making new hay out of old stories.

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By: CCBC http://cereblog.org/2009/02/13/he-has-seen-enough-of-religious-fanaticism-leigh-on-5/#comment-190 CCBC Sat, 14 Feb 2009 01:37:03 +0000 http://cereblog.org/?p=216#comment-190 <i>Isn’t that, like, precisely the plot of the next 100 issues of Cerebus? </i> I dunno. Seems to me like Cerebus spends most of High Society not really certain why he's running for office,and I think he shows ambivalence about the Pope thing as well. Maybe the basic plot is more like: Cerebus tries to figure out what his uniqueness is for. But it's been a while since I read those 100 issues (I'm reading along with you guys because it's more fun that way)so I could be wrong. Isn’t that, like, precisely the plot of the next 100 issues of Cerebus?

I dunno. Seems to me like Cerebus spends most of High Society not really certain why he’s running for office,and I think he shows ambivalence about the Pope thing as well. Maybe the basic plot is more like: Cerebus tries to figure out what his uniqueness is for.
But it’s been a while since I read those 100 issues (I’m reading along with you guys because it’s more fun that way)so I could be wrong.

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